If I Only Knew: Lessons to Build a Successful Land Business | with Guests Rebecca Frantz, ALC and Trent Lister, ALC

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Justin Osborn: Welcome to the Realtors Land Institute podcast, The Voice of Land, the industry's leading land real estate organization.

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JO: Hello, this is Justin Osborne, Accredited Land Consultant with the Wells Group in Durango, Colorado. On today's episode of The Voices of Land podcast, we're talking to RLI members and Accredited Land Consultants, Rebecca Frantz and Trent Lister. Thanks for being on today, guys.

Trent Lister: You bet. Thanks for having us.

Rebecca Frantz: Excited to be here, Justin.

JO: Well, Rebecca, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what part of the country you're practicing real estate in.

RF: You bet. For those who don't know me, I am born and raised, proud to say that I come from a century farm in East Central Iowa. I've been in the real estate business going on five years total. Started out in residential, but switched over to the good side of land four years ago. And I have been with a company here in the Midwest called Hertz Farm Management, my time.

JO: Excellent. Well, thanks for that intro. Trent, how about you? 

TL: Yeah, good morning. So I'm up out of Bozeman, Montana. I got licensed in 2015 with a brokerage called PureWest. We're also the statewide affiliate for Christie's International Real Estate. And so we have a pretty good product mix. I've got 10 partners across the state. And so we run about 250 agents with 18 offices spread out through mostly south and west and northwest Montana. I've been a licensed broker since 2017 and excited to be on the podcast today. Joined RLI shortly after I got licensed. And it's been just a great opportunity to connect with people like you and other people across the country that we've turned business into real friends. So glad to be here and visit with you today.

JO: Yeah, I'm excited to do this. For our listeners that don't know, Trent and Rebecca have both become pretty good friends over the years through the RLI network. And this is fun to have you guys both on the podcast with me today. And we're going to talk about, I think we're calling this segment, If I Only Would Have Known. We've got a lot of newer agents in the industry. Rebecca, you're four years. Trent, you're nine years. I'm almost 22 years. So I think between the three of us, we can share some stories for these newer agents on things that they should know that they can learn from our mistakes.

TL: Well, we don't probably have enough time to cover it all. But yeah, we could at least cover some high points.

JO: Yeah, that's for sure. Well, Rebecca, let's start with you. I mean, you're in the Midwest. You're specializing in farm ground. What are some of the traits and tactics that you'd really like to share with our listeners today? 

RF: Yeah, I would say something that I've learned, and this probably goes for everyone across the board, whether you're in the Midwest or not, something that came to mind was communication as an agent. I have learned that super heavily as the years have gone on. Even as we're in a shifting market, even if you're not getting calls on a listing that you know you expected to have sold already, shooting a text to your seller, giving them a quick call, even if it's 30 seconds, just saying there's no update is better than no communication at all. And so I would remind people of that because that was something I was naive of at the beginning of all of this. I was just like, there's no update to give, so I'm not gonna call them because I have other things to do with my time. But that's so not true. I would say that has been a big transition for me, especially in this market that we're walking into right now.

JO: Yeah, that's a great point. And I'll add to that by saying, find out what form and method of communication your clients like. Because some clients prefer text, some clients prefer email, some clients prefer a site visit, and some prefer to just jump on a phone. And I think that we do a lot of disservice to our clients by assuming they wanna communicate the same way we do. So great point on communication. And the other thing I'll say on that is make sure you're communicating with your fellow agents. I mean, it's so frustrating how many offers I'll get. I'll be out all day showing ranches completely out of cell phone service, and I'll fire up my email, and I'll have an offer that came in at 8 o'clock that morning that has a response by noon the next day. And I'm coming in at 8 or 9 o'clock at night. There was no text message. There was no phone call. I had no clue that agent was sending me an offer. And it's just take a little bit of common courtesy and reach out to your fellow associates and say, "Hey, just heads up, brought you an offer. Here's the highlights of the offer that you need to know about."

TL: Yeah, that's exactly where I was going to go to, Justin. I think having that highlights, I like to put just a little cover letter on offers when I send it. And here's the bullet points. Here's the offer. Here's where we're at. Here's response time. Give me a call. We can chat about it, whatever it is. I think that that is one of the things. Especially new agents don't realize the value of collaborating with the agent on the other side of the deal and not building that relationship that creates the goodwill throughout a deal because in every single deal, stuff comes up. And if you can be aligned and communicating with one another on the front side, it serves both your clients better and leaves that ambiguity out of it. And I think just taking the time to actually build that rapport and communicate for your client where you're coming from and what your intentions are, man, it smooths out a lot of things before they ever come up. So I think that's a really good point.

JO: Yeah, and ask good questions. You know, what's important to them? I had a smart agent call me just before we started recording this podcast this morning who said he's bringing me an offer on one of my listings and asked what was important to my sellers. Well, my sellers are in their 80s. When we sell this, they're moving into assisted living. I said, "Man, they would love a 30-day post-occupancy. Not that they are going to need all 30 days, but if you put in there that they could stay in this home that they've been in for 40 years for up to 30 days, it would make your offer look really, really good." And I'll have maybe 10% of the offers I get, the agents call me and ask what's important other than price.

TL: Yep. Yep. Absolutely.

JO: What else you got, Trent? Rebecca had a good one starting off there with communication. What's some other pointers you'd like to share with the listeners? 

TL: You know, I think something that we take for granted with the real estate business is that a lot of folks get into it because there's can be flexibility of schedule. And there can be some work from wherever you want to be mentalities. I'm kind of a go-to-the-office guy most of the time. But I think treating it as a real business from the day one of getting in is absolutely critical. Have a plan, have an organizational plan, have a communication plan for a CRM or however you're going to do your client management. I think being organized and treating it like a business from the get-go helps build that business more quickly into the business that you want it to be. Even if you don"t have a bunch of transactions to be doing right out of the gate, you can be treating it like a business and going to work every day with a list of things that you're doing.

TL: And intentionally reaching out to clients, intentionally reaching out to your sphere, whether that's scheduling lunch meetings or whether it's joining a booster club or whatever it is. I think that creating the business, behaving in ways that you're going to behave once your business is thriving, if you can start that out of the gate, I think it gets you to that... It raises you up to that level a lot more quickly. And when things get busy, your stuff doesn't fall apart because you have the systems in place. That was one of the things that when I got in the business, it was kind of like a rocket ship, it was 2015 and there was already multiple offers going on in my market at that time. And you get busy just doing the work. And I think if you can come into it with a better plan and an organizational flow, then when the work does get busy, you don't have things slip through the cracks quite as easily.

JO: Rebecca, I'm seeing a lot of head nodding here. So, I love it. I love seeing the agreement. What else can you chime in with as far as treating it as a business? 

RF: Yeah, no, I will... There's some other things I want to touch on, but shaking my head just because something that another broker in my company talked about when I first got started was building a firm foundation in real estate. And it's not always fun to do certain things, whether it's market research, or sometimes I feel like lunches can be an inconvenience when I should be out at a property, but building those relationships and a foundation I learned is so critical, even being four years into this business.

JO: Yeah, great point. I mean, just like any solid home, solid commercial building, you got to have that solid foundation or else everything else is just going to crumble. What else you got, Rebecca? 

RF: So another one that came to mind, and I guess you could... I don't even know if someone would... I would say devil's advocate on this, was being a team player. I did not see that as something at the beginning that I was willing to consider. I was kind of blind eyed to it. But we talk about that a lot at our company, Hertz. I mean, and if you look at it from an RLI standpoint even, just the ability and willingness to work with others and include them on things has been tremendous for my business.

JO: Yeah, it's kind of that all ships rise mentality.

RF: 100%. And coming from the residential market, it just looked a little bit different for me, at least in the Midwest. It's kind of like eat what you kill. I hate that saying, but everyone's kind of on their own. You don't share ideas with other people. But like I was telling you before, I have the ability in RLI to call their agents and bounce things off of them. And it really does feel like a family, like a team atmosphere. But it's the willingness to make those calls and be open and share where I'm at that's gotten me further, I think.

TL: Yeah. And I think I would echo that I think getting out of your own market, I think shameless plug for RLI, but it's in a competitive market certainly in your own town or in your own state, sometimes it is harder to get that collaboration. Colorado has been, from what I've seen, Colorado was really good about that. But like Montana, we're a non-disclosure state. So, sales prices are not public knowledge. You can't go down and find out what the last, what the ranch sold for last time. You can't find comps that weren't on the market unless you have the inside scoop on them. And so that collaboration can be a little bit more private and a little tougher. When I plugged into the Colorado RLI group years ago and started going to the national conference, it allows you to be having these open conversations on whether it's commission or whether it's how to handle a difficult seller, or how to market in a different way. By getting out of your own market, man, you can really engage with some groups and some people that have been doing it for longer or been more successful with zero risk of any competition.

TL: It's just literally goodwill and good collaboration. And I think there's so much knowledge in RLI, especially of folks that have been doing this a really long time. Justin's been doing this 22 years and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of transactions by being able to just collaborate with that person and ask open questions or sometimes we have some really frank conversations, right, Justin, on money and all the different things that you can't have with another parent on the ball field, or even another person in your office necessarily, but getting... Expanding your market or expanding your sphere, I guess, of getting out of your own market and getting to an event and having dinner with somebody, man, that's been light years of improvement for my business in the last five years.

JO: Yeah, I tell you, man, the relationships that I've made in this organization have just been great. And I love the way you use that word collaboration because it does make us all better. You know, I mean, the more contacts that we can put in our Rolodex, just the better we are servicing our clients. And I'm sorry, Rebecca, a Rolodex is a thing that we used to have.

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RF: I appreciate this so much.

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JO: Well, Rebecca, thanks for letting me give you a hard time there. What other pointers do you have for our listeners on things you wish you would have known? 

RF: This probably goes back to the foundation a little bit, but something that came to mind when we initially started the conversation about this podcast episode was having a good mentor. I think no matter kind of like where you're at in the business, I am lucky that my broker in my office has 20 years of experience and I get to bounce ideas off him. I'm lucky that there's people in RLI I can call like we were just discussing, but I think I was naive again to that at first of just like, I don't need this. I'll figure it out. The internet's great, but having the ability to talk to people about their real life experiences and having someone else that has your back in this business and helps you through things, I think has helped me a lot.

JO: Totally agree. Trent, you got any input as far as mentors go? 

TL: Yeah, I think it's such a good point, Rebecca, because it's almost laughable sometimes when I've gone to some of these guys and been like, yeah, I've got this going on and I really don't have an idea of how to fix it, you know? And they're like, oh, you just got to call this attorney and they're going to draw this up. And then it's like, oh, okay. You know, it's just, it's second nature because they've already done it 10 times. And so, I think that is such a great thing. And I think also just being transparent with that person, like, man, I look up to you and I would really appreciate your insight on some of this stuff. And I think sometimes when we're hard chargers and we're coming in and we're like, I'm going to bootstrap this business and I'm going to figure it out myself, sometimes we kind of get in our own way of not being, I guess, humble is the word that comes to mind, but even just being open to admitting that we don't know the answer and that that's totally okay. And that actually makes us better by being open to that coaching and open to that counseling and saying, "I need some help here."

TL: It doesn't mean we're foolish. The foolish one is the one that doesn't ask the question. And I think that that's just a great point of seeking out those mentors. And it doesn't have to be a big structured deal. I think most people I've run into, especially in the land business that are seasoned, they're more than happy to offer help and advice. And they're happy to invest in problem solving. That's what they've done for 30 years. And it's, I think it's exciting and engaging to work with them on things like that.

JO: Well, most of them had somebody that helped them get to where they're at in life. And so they're happy to give back. And I love what you said, Trent, about letting them know, make sure they know the role and the position they're playing. And I tell you, that's one of my biggest regrets is George Cliff got me into this organization. And, I mean, I feel like he knew, 'cause I was always calling him and picking his brain. And he'd come to Durango and ride the train and we get together for breakfast and the wives would get together. But that man did a lot for my business. And I wouldn't be where I'm at if it wasn't for him. But I wish I could have told him that in the past, and I never got that opportunity. Sorry, what other stuff do you have for our listeners on things that you that you wish you would have done? 

TL: I think one thing to be aware of and think for kind of an eyes wide open perspective is just what it takes to build a business, both time and financially. I think that there's a million different things that pull us and there's a lot of folks who'd love to take our advertising dollars. And I think being aware that you need to set a budget and you need to have a plan, and you also need to be strategic about the ways you're marketing. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't cost any money. But I think also not being afraid to spend some money to make some money. For me, I was never a Zillow guy. I know a lot of people have had a lot of success building leads that way. That wasn't me. I spent my money in things that were meaningful to me, whether it's sponsoring an Elk Foundation banquet or sponsoring a Mule Deer Foundation banquet, or I've done things with... Sponsored rodeo, but maybe I did only a certain level of sponsorship, maybe a $2000 sponsorship of the rodeo to have a banner there. But then I spent another $3000 in just buying tickets and giving them to clients and having a big group there.

TL: I think intentionally doing those things that says, hey, I'm in business, and I'm here to bless and love all my clients and my friends and just keep your name relevant and being at the places that you want to engage in, I think that's a really strong and genuine way to build a business that just puts you in the mix with the folks you want to be in the mix with, without it being marketing or whatever the word would be. But just being genuine and just creating experiences for people, organized dinners. We've done some really fun things with horse drawn sleigh rides up in the mountains up to a yurt that had a steak dinner, fill it up with 20 people and 10 couples and just go spend the evening doing something fun and exciting. It's just meaningful. Because real estate is relationships. I mean, our foundation of our business at PureWest is relationships for life. And I think you can't build those through Instagram ads. And we do lots of stuff on Instagram, you got to be all those places. But I think that that's something to know on the front side. It is worth investing in your clients and in your friend sphere. Don't be afraid to spend some money intentionally, just let it happen naturally.

JO: Yeah, well said. Rebecca, those are some great examples he gave of what he's doing up there in Bozeman. What's Hertz doing out in the Midwest when it comes to kind of target marketing and generating leads? Is a lot of that coming from probably past clients, I would imagine, with you being specific to the farm industry? 

RF: So I would say yes. Like Trent said, in and all real estate, it's all relationship driven. I would say, especially in our office referrals are a huge thing, like everywhere. I will say, we are trying to get more into the marketing on social media, because we weren't as strong in that area in the past. So we're doing that more. We care a lot about having reviews written based on our experiences, and being more present of what we're showing on social media so that people know we're here. But I think our foundation is built on strong relationships, whether it's with attorneys, whether it's with lenders, whether it's experiences from buyers, sellers, and them telling people about that.

JO: I love that both of you use that word multiple times, relationships. So many of the newer agents don't understand that. They think they can work from home, be in their pajamas, get on social media, make a few posts, and don't get me wrong, there's a time and place for everything I mean, there's a couple brokers I know in southwest Colorado, granted, they're spending thousands of dollars a month on social media, but they're getting those online leads coming in. The conversion rate I know is extremely low, but there's a time and place for everything. But I love how both of you hit on the relationship business, that real estate is still the relationship business. And the more in-depth you can make those relationships, I think the more business that our listeners are going to generate.

RF: And I think that's something I didn't think about at the beginning was just how important they are, how important it is to take clients to a dinner after a closing, how important it is to have an update with an attorney and some of those things. I took it for granted, but now I'm starting to see the fruition of it really come.

JO: One of you mentioned problem solving a while ago, and I forget who it was, but let's talk about that. I mean, very rarely does every single transaction look the same and go smoothly. And one of the sayings I've got with our newer agents is we know who the deal makers are in this town and we know who the deal breakers are. And the deal breakers are the guys where you just kind of like roll your eyes and you're like, "Man, do you really want to go look at that listing?" Because that listing agent is just going to get in the way and kill this deal. But let's talk a little bit about that. Like what type of problem solving skills have you guys had to come up with in order to get buyers and sellers to the finish line? 

TL: You know, I think one of the things, like what Rebecca talked about early on is just like communication side of things. One thing that I think is handy to help your client, you got to lead the transaction, right? Whether you're on the buying side or the listing side, you should be working to lead the transaction, lead your client. One thing that I've done when I've taken the time to do it like I'm supposed to is as soon as we're under contract on a deal, I send an email to my client with here's the next seven steps of this deal. And here's when this is due and here's when this is due. I've actually done a deal with a couple of other brokers that we actually send a... We share a spreadsheet back and forth that says, here's a buyer responsibility, here's a seller responsibility. Here's what these deadlines are for due diligence. Here's when earnest money is due.

TL: Do we all agree on these dates and on these tasks? And I think sometimes that can help on the problem solving by just being organized on the front side, Justin, because everybody has a clear expectation of what we got to do next. I think where a lot of deals get sideways is when unexpected things come up, and a seller or buyer is like, "Well, I didn't know that deadline was tomorrow." All right, well, if we addressed on the front side, that saves us from an emotional response or reactive response that all of a sudden, something is urgent that didn't need to be urgent. And then people behave poorly. I think a lot of times we can solve... We can problem solve on the front side by just being more organized and making sure everybody's on the same page would be, I guess, my advice on that question.

JO: Yeah, so problem solve on the front side in my simple mind, that's taking a proactive approach as opposed to a reactive approach.

TL: Yep.

JO: Yeah, yeah. Well said. What else you got, Rebecca? 

RF: What comes to mind for me is reminding myself and I would encourage other agents that we're educating our buyers and sellers. Sometimes I forget that I'm used to all these things in the contract, because we're doing it every single day. So I know what proration should be and what time of year like we're willing to put that in a contract or what a WRP contract pays. And I forget that I have to educate people on that. And sometimes it comes later on. And I'm like, well, if I would have done this earlier on, I wouldn't be having this conversation, it wouldn't be as... There wouldn't be so much tension maybe potentially, or there might have not been things that are missed if we educated them earlier on in the process. Sometimes I just forget that I do this every day. They don't.

TL: Yeah.

JO: Yeah. And not only do we do this every day, but we're dealing with what's often the biggest investment our clients have ever made. Well, let's talk about kind of what you guys are getting ready for going into the future here. I mean, interest rates are at the highest they've been in I think 20 years. They're they're calling for another uptick. We're kind of seeing a shift where we're getting from a seller's market to a more balanced market in a lot of parts of the country. What are you guys kind of planning for here for the future? 

TL: I'm happy to jump in. I guess, one thing I would think is worth reminding, and that's don't be afraid to keep running the play and keep pushing your business forward regardless of the market. A lot of times we have this tendency to really retract all of our spending and retract all of our advertising. And one thing we're working on as a team right now is revamping our website. When things are a little bit slower transactionally, that gives you an opportunity to work on your business instead of just putting out fires working in your business. And so I think that now is a really good time to... Number one, I think it's okay to catch a breath. And I think that sometimes we get way out of whack when... The last five years have been absolutely on fire. And we're all just trying to stay alive.

TL: I think it is okay to catch your breath and do some things with your family that you've been wanting to do and get back to a little sense of normalcy. In the same breath, I would say also continue to work on your business, set some things in place. We're revamping some systems right now on how we communicate with clients from contract to close and closing, post closing, and how we treat a lead that comes in. All right. How do we nurture that? Right now is a really good time, and I think for the next six months, to work on our business. And so that when things break again in the spring, early summer, we're firing on all cylinders instead of playing catch up again.

RF: I completely echo that Trent in terms of keeping up with market data there. I did that a lot more early on in my business than what I'm doing today and making sure that you're aware of what's going on, doing your own research, providing that to whether it's past clients or influencers that help you buy and sell. That's a huge deal to give them updates. And when you're busy, it's hard to do that. But now is a great time to be doing that.

TL: Yeah.

JO: Yeah. I loved what you said about it's okay to catch your breath. I mean, a lot of us have been working 14, 16 hour weeks more than ever the past three years. And, I mean, there's a fine line between catching your breath and a term that we like to use here in the ski town's called winter lax. And that is where it's like, all right, it's November, December, January, February, March. We're having fun. We're skiing. Oh, shoot. I got nothing in the pipeline. And I really caution our listeners to learn the difference between catching your breath, taking a timeout versus taking a whole season off. And that's where I actually was able to get where I'm at, because in 2000, I guess it was 2007, 2008 when the market turned, I was, let's see, five years, six years in the business, was doing 15, 20 deals a year. It was a decent living. But when the market turned, I had two little kids, stay home wife. It wasn't an option to say, oh, there's just... It's a down market.

JO: There's nothing out there. And I think a lot of people are going to be saying that here in the coming months because things are starting to slow down and shift. But it doesn't mean they stop. But both of you said something that I want to reiterate, and that is continuing to market, continuing to spend money on your marketing, because it was me being intentional, making a decision to do that in '07, '08, that took me from being a 15, 20 year or excuse me, 15, 20 transaction a year broker to doing the 60, 70 deals that I'm doing today. And that never would have happened if I wouldn't have intentionally spent money on target marketing and advertising when all the other brokers were cutting back saying we can't afford to spend money in a down market. Well, anything else for our listeners, guys, as we're wrapping up that you really think are good nuggets that they need to take away? 

TL: One thing I would add that I think is just a fun thing that we do, a little counter cultural. When you're thinking about that client care and just thinking about investing in your clients, I love to do Thanksgiving holiday baskets and Valentine stuff. And I think that everybody in the world sends their clients a box of chocolates for Christmas, or steaks or whatever. I would really encourage I think it is really relevant to do things off season. And just, again, not just do the generic thing because we were supposed to bless our clients during the holidays, do it on different times that are meaningful. Whether that's even just something as simple as a couple of fresh coffee cups and a bag of coffee or whatever it is.

TL: You know, I've done things through costco.com, you can actually have them delivered. And they're nice baskets, you can have a customized greeting note included on that thing Costco deliver them for you. Just, I would encourage everybody to get... These are good times to be thinking about things outside the box on how you can reach your clients and get things into their home that they're thinking about you. So when they when they do get ready to buy a piece of ground or buy a piece of recreational land or sell a home, whatever it is, you've made those inputs, you made the deposits in the bank already. Think of some things outside the box that you're going to spend the same amount of money whether it's on Zillow or whether it's on gift baskets. Try to do some things that are relevant and maybe on some different times of the year that not everybody sent them the same thing.

JO: Yeah, gift baskets or Thanksgiving, I totally understand that. I'm a little nervous though, Trent, what kind of love letters are we sending your clients here at Valentine's? 

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TL: Well, it's a fair question. I have my wife review everything before we send it. So we're pretty good.

JO: Smart man, smart man. Rebecca, what other thoughts do you have for the listeners? 

RF: I think the last note that I would leave everyone with that came to mind when Trent was talking about that was obviously we only have so much time in the day. But I will say I've never had regret taking the time to write handwritten thank you cards to people and expressing my gratitude, whether it's a client, whether it's another agent, whether it's someone just going out of their way to make me feel important or they're giving me affirmation. I've never had regret doing that and I've only seen it benefit my business.

TL: Yeah.

JO: Yeah, great point. I had a lender bring me a bottle of wine and he's smart. He said, "Justin, this is for Tammy, not for you." And he gave me the handwritten note that went along with it. And I had the same thing. I looked at him like, "All right, man." He actually took the time to write me a nice little note and that meant a lot. Well, I'd just like to remind our listeners that you can find Trent and Rebecca and myself at the National Land Conference in Louisville, Kentucky, March 10th through 13th. So make sure you register for that if you have not already done so. And for more expertise on land real estate topics, be sure to check out the RLI blog. Follow us on social media and of course, tune in for the upcoming episodes of the Voices of Land podcast.