Dirt Debacles #3 | Guests Allison Worrell and Luke Worrell, ALC

   

[music]

Justin Osborn: Welcome to the REALTORS Land Institute podcast, the Voice of Land, the industry's leading land real estate organization.

JO: This is Justin Osborne, Accredited Land Consultant (ALC) with the Wells Group in Durango, Colorado. Welcome to our third episode of Dirt Debacles, a new series on the Voices of Land podcast. On today's episode, we're going to get into the dirt with two RLI members who are co-owners of the same land brokerage, the Twist. These two are not only business partners, but partners in marriage and raising two boys. That's right, folks. Today we're going to hear wild stories of running a land brokerage from Allison and Luke Whirl. Allison Whirl is a licensed real estate broker in Illinois where she and her husband, Luke own and operate World Land Services. In addition to real estate, their company provides farm management and land appraisal services. Allison is a great leader and deep thinker contributing in unique ways to their business and to RLI. Great to have you on the podcast today, Allison.

Allison Worrell: Hey Justin. Thanks for having us.

JO: Yeah, I'm excited to do this. And so we'll, give a little blurb here on Luke. While Allison has stayed more behind the scenes, you've likely had the chance to get to know Luke Worl, ALC as he is the immediate past president of RLI. Luke has served in a variety of leadership roles within RLI in his 17 years in the land business. He was also awarded the RLI Rising Star Award in 2018, and the award for the largest ALC to ALC transaction in 2017. Welcome aboard, Luke.

Luke Worrell: Thank you very much Justin. Happy to be here.

JO: Yeah, I'm excited to do this with you guys. My wife Tammy, she's, been one of my fabulous assistants that's, had the pleasure of man, I've been so lucky to have her making me look good the past, it's 10 years now and, it's not quite to the level that you guys are doing full time, but I'm excited to hear how you guys manage things and see if I can learn a few things from you in my own business and my own marriage. [laughter]

LW: [laughter], hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully we'll help you out a little bit there. We'll see. Jury's out.

AW: You can learn from our mistakes. Justin.

LW: [laughter]

JO: Hey, I'm open for it. Talk to me a little bit. How did the two of you become co-owners of the World Land Services? 

LW: Yeah, so I'll try to make a long story short. So it happened very organically. Allison and I met in college. Quick backstory, my father started this firm in 1995, when I met Allison. And even early on into our marriage, we had zero intent of, working in this industry. Neither one of us, we both went to [laughter] school for something entirely different, but, we moved back to central Illinois for a job Alison was offered. And I really, this was, right around 2007. I rediscovered my love for the business. 'cause obviously I grew up around it with my father. And so I started working here around 2007. As life would have it, Allison came on board around 2014, and then right around 2017, my dad's like, essentially, yeah, you two are great. I'm done. And, gave us zero [laughter], zero notice on, Hey, you guys are young adults, young parents, but now you're gonna own a business together too, so congrats, figure it out. And so, that's the long version made short, and that was 2018. So January 1st, 2018 is when Alison and I technically, took the steering wheel here. Hey, we're still here. We're must be doing something all right.

AW: And we're still married.

LW: We're still married. [laughter]

JO: That's great. If you can, survive, what's the saying? If you can survive a remodel together through marriage, you can survive anything. And man, owning a real estate company together would be much harder than that. [laughter]

AW: Yeah, it's not without its challenges, but, people will often say like, how do you do that? Don't you wanna kill each other? But honestly, we compliment each other really well where I'm weak, he's strong and vice versa. And so, it works because we're not right on top of each other as far as, how we approach things. We bring unique perspective and, I think that helps a lot. His dad actually still works with us, pretty close to full-time. He's trying to slow down, but we're so grateful to still have, our sensei, in the business with us, building on the foundation that he started and trying to honor the next, generation, of the business together.

JO: Now, are both of you licensed? 

AW: Yes.

LW: Yes. I've been licensed since about, oh geez, I don't know, 2008, 2009. And then I'll let Allison fill in, but she, has recently licensed but has really been the guiding hand behind all of our real estate efforts pretty much since she started in 2014. She's seen a lot herself. But yeah, so now we're both, we are both licensed agents.

AW: Yeah, I always work behind the scenes, on the marketing side of things. Didn't work full-time until our kids were a little bit older. And so, yeah, I got licensed about two and a half years ago. It's interesting how you can be around the industry a long time and then when you're working your own deals, you realize [chuckle] how much you still have to learn. It's been fun to, get to chase my own deals and, kinda flex a new muscle in the next stage. But he's certainly my go-to for knowledge and I don't know how to handle this. It's kind of my managing broker and leader in a lot of areas. [laughter]

LW: Yeah, she is my favorite agent too, on staff. It should be noted.

AW: [laughter]

LW: I am less bothered by her questions than maybe some others.

AW: [laughter]

JO: Sure. Yeah. Let's say the benefits are a lot better with her than some of the other agents, I would imagine, [laughter] That's awesome. I hear you on the never stop learning income and Allison, I've been doing this for, let's see, 22 years now. I got my license in 2002 and, license in two different states. And I seems like every week I'm learning something new. Every time I do these podcasts, it seems like I walk away with one or two new things. And, I tell you, that's one of the best things I think about this industry is there's just so much knowledge out there, and each deal is so unique that there's so much opportunity for all of us to continue to learn and continue to get educated if we're willing.

AW: Absolutely.

LW: Yeah. And it's awesome that we, get to learn together, and tackle the hard things. And obviously I know this is a real estate podcast. But, managing people and feeling the responsibility of our employees and their families to, I'm very blessed that we get to do it together because she joked at it at the first. A lot of times when we tell people what we do, they kind of look at us and like, wait for one of us to leave so they can actually ask the other one like that. Is that awful? 'cause it sounds awful, but, we, like she said, we work really well together. And even, I work well with my dad too, so I'm fortunate in that regard. But, yeah, learning together is exciting and tackling the projects and the uniqueness of life every day is different.

JO: Yeah, we've got a lot of similarities. 'cause your dad's still in the business. My mom's been in the business for over 30 years. She's a top producer with Evy Holiday down in Texas. And so, I would imagine your conversations at dinner and the holidays are probably a lot like ours. And so, how do you kinda juggle and find the balance to make sure, alright, timeout, we're not talking about real estate, we're not talking about deals, we're not talking about technology in the industry. Let's make sure that we're actually being intentional and talking about X, Y, and Z that don't have anything to do with about, with real estate. How do you guys do that? 

AW: Not perfectly. I think there, it's impossible to not let, work spill into every nook and cranny of our lives just because, it is something we do together and we feel the responsibility to do well. Yeah, I'd be lying if I said we didn't talk about it in front of the boys sometimes, and they're like, would you guys stop? But we try and compartmentalize to some extent, having a bit of a commute to and from work helps, for that. 'cause we can kind of shake off a hard day and by the time we get home, or mom and dad, and trying to, give the business adequate space and attention in our lives without taking over. You were talking about almost being empty nesters and, when these guys leave, we still wanna love each other and enjoy being together. And if all we have together is work, that'll be tricky to do. So maybe try and, shut it off when we need to.

LW: Yeah, I would say, so our... We live in Springfield, our office is about 35 minutes away, a lot of times, it gives us a chance for the coffee to work in the morning, maybe, have a chance to chit chat early. We're both early risers. And then the chance to decompress on the way home, I often joke that it's nice if I've had a rough day or whatever, I can catch my breath before I'm, asked to throw a ball or shot with a Nerf gun, when I walk in the front door. We try our best. And like she said, it is not perfect, especially, just in any walk of life it gets busy. And so a lot of times things fall through the cracks, and so it is the, we try our best not to talk about it at home, but it does happen, a lot of times too, we've learned as the boys got older, that we just like, all right, hey, time out.

LW: This is work, mom and dad's work. Which is a nice way of us saying like, don't ask us any questions for a moment, [laughter] And then there'll be times, we'll lay in bed and it's, we're exhausted at the end of a day. And we're like, yeah, crap, that meeting on Thursday, did we iron that out? And so, we'll, there's a little work meetings take place here and there, but we try our best to guard that.

AW: I love that it's a way we can incorporate our boys into the business too, by being the ones who make the rules, we can bring them to property inspections from time to time and help them get a feel for what we do. And, we've got a sick kid home today, so he can just chill in the conference room. And so there are perks, there are unique challenges certainly, but, I love that they get a probably a closer view of what mom and dad do because it's a family business.

LW: Yeah. It's great too that they get to see mom and dad, work together and we're far from perfect, but, and to enjoy it. And to like, to enjoy what they do and see them talk work to a certain extent. Is fun. It's exciting.

JO: Yeah, I agree with that. There's so many kids that, they can say what the title of their parents are, but they don't really understand what they do. And this is one of those industries where I don't think that's the case. There's so many times where we're coming from soccer practice or coming from school drop off or, all that kind of stuff. And you've gotta grab that call from the lender or the appraiser or the title company. And, especially as the kids get older, they start asking questions, as far as, what was that about? And so our industry is one where, you start seeing, especially in kids a little entrepreneurship mind when they start asking questions that have to do with real estate. And that started happening for me, a few years ago with my kids. But, they're a witness to going to work with mom and dad quite often where that doesn't happen in other industries.

LW: Yeah, absolutely. They're, at that age, they're 14 and nine, so they both like, have activities. Nothing too crazy. But there are times where if, Gail's got a cross country meet and Allison has to show a property, here, Benson, our 9-year-old, here are your options. Watch your brother's cross country meet or go show some properties with mom and hobnob, with the clients. And so it's fun to have them bounce around and tag along, and incorporate them when we can.

JO: We'll, we've got this called Dirt Debacles for a reason here, I want to hear some stories. You guys working together for this long, you've gotta have some interesting situations that, you can tell us about that you've come across over the years. What comes to your mind when we start thinking about some of the interesting situations, challenging clients or deals educate us a little bit? 

LW: Yeah. About 90 minutes ago we got a call, not [laughter] We were joking, not so much like transactional, but it's we were joking before we hit record. Yeah. 90 minutes ago. Allison was in Jacksonville. And then we got a call that the youngest was got sick at school. So she, frantically drove home and taken this from home. But I don't know, Alison, I don't know if you have any.

AW: Mostly the scheduling challenge of, having the same busy season, the same, we often joke it would be easier to run a business together if we didn't have the same kids, but we have the same kids. And so that makes it a little trickier. And so most of our debacles are around, shuffling everyone where they need to go. I remember one time [laughter], we literally met halfway dropped the children switched cars and then went on. And so most of our debacles come from, crap, I forgot so and so needs this, and, but you have an appointment and I have an appointment. And so just the shuffle, which every married couple balances, whether they work together or not, but I feel like it's a little magnified, when you are in the same business. One other debacle I think, that comes to mind is just being willing to show each other grace when we screw up.

AW: 'cause, we witness each other's screw ups a lot. And so we unashamedly have a line item in the company budget that we have labeled errors. And so if you need to, personal example, I had an issue where an old tractor was hauled off to the dump from property that was not supposed to be. And so out of my commission, we just went ahead and pulled that sucker back and we got it taken care of. And Luke didn't ask any questions. He just knew turn the other way, if she thinks this is the right way to settle this, go for it. And he's had several of those as well, where it's like, sure, it's all right. Just don't even tell me how many zeros. Let's just move on.

LW: It's funny 'cause like a lot of my debacles are retroactive because I'd like to think [laughter], I would like to think that like when I was really cutting my teeth in the industry, Allison had a very successful career in something entirely different. And so I would come to her and I'd be like, guess what I did today? And, get a load of this. This is nuts. And she always was super nice and kind, but now I even, and, retroactively now, she's like, oh man, I bet that was a hot mess. How did you deal that? And I'm almost able to use my early debacles, almost as a teachable moment for her and the others that, the other young agents we have on staff, if you just like some of the ones that come to my hand, off the top of my head, these are all that totally my fault.

LW: This was before Allison was even in the business, but most of my debacles come down to, learning that tough lesson to be a really clear and concise communicator. Which I'm sure you can appreciate Ed Kat given your job title, clear communication. There was a time early on where we had a client who owned two 40 acre parcels near a small community called Root House. And he wanted to sell one. I had a buyer looking for some 10 31 money. My dad and I were trying to do too many things at once. He said, yeah, Mr. Burke would sell that 40 acres. I was moving too quick. And honestly, I sold the other 48. I sold a farm that wasn't for sale to my guy. And we got to the contract and then dad was like, you have the wrong, bucket root house farm.

LW: I was like, no, I don't. He's like, no, that's not the one. And so that was one of my early lessons in communication. I kid you not though, long story short, he, everybody was so easygoing. He was like, they're about this. They were about the same size, same value, and he just went with it. I kid you not, the guy just went. By the grace of God, that was a disaster. But like my other early one that I remember just the, a very clear communication you need to learn is I was working with a guy, him and his wife, we're on the deed obviously, Allison and I would, love my wife. We work great. I was naive and assumed everybody has this great marriage. I'm young, I'm like 23. Everybody has this great, this guy shows up to the closing and the wife, they're like, where's your wife? And she, he said, he literally said he is like, does she need to be here? Does she need to know? 

JO: [laughter]

LW: And, yeah, she does need to know. And it turns out they were kind of going through a divorce and he had listed the farm without.

LW: Or even really being aware of it, so, Thankfully that one work that too, but I think my debacles early on, were just communication-driven and learning how to really cut to the chase and be intent on knowing each person's true goals and purpose, those were some of the early ones that stick out to me.

JO: Well, I tell you, Man, you said something there on that first one that I wanna circle back and make sure our listeners really pick up on, and that was... I think your words were, You were just moving a little too fast on...

LW: Yeah.

JO: I don't know if it was writing the contract or meeting the client, but moving too fast when that legal description came along or the deed came along and man, I tell you, we had that happen, obviously, during the COVID era, we had to. And it was like, If you didn't drop what you were doing, people were missing out on properties, and now... Thankfully, we've got a little bit of breathing room, but I really encourage our listeners to take a slogan that we have here at the Wells group and Durango and apply it to your own business. And that is slow down, to go fast right because it's always... It's always longer to go back, you think you got it done, but then you gotta go back and redo it, and then you gotta go back and you do it again, and then you gotta go back and fix the spelling because you left off an L on Mitchell I did that on one of my client's names yesterday, I'm like, Oh sorry, but actually slowing down to go fast and taking the time to do it right the first time, and we're all guilty of it, like I said, it just happened to me yesterday, and I've been doing this for 22 years, but if those of you that are listening to this podcast can figure that out early in your careers, man, you're gonna last a long time in this industry.

LW: Yeah, I think, and honestly, I know my examples were from early on in my career, but obviously we're talking about owning a company now, so my workload is... Or my responsibility load has only grown exponentially since then, so it's almost slowing down and making sure you're still covering all your bases even gets more important, I feel like as you grow on in your career.

JO: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Allison, how do you deal with it? You can't come home and say, Oh my gosh, babe, guess what my business partner did today, right? 

[laughter]

AW: Right, I think that is what is probably most challenging is if you think of all the hard things you go through at work, think of all the hard things you go through in marriage, all the hard things you go through running a home together, having children together, we just do all of it together, and so I think that's where it becomes challenging is just if one of us is stressed at work, we feel it at home and vice versa, and so to navigate through all of that together always can be hard just to... Feel like you're not dumping on each other and that kind of thing. I think one thing that's been really helpful for us, we both have professional coaches outside of our business, and so that's been really valuable for us to have an outside voice coming in, 'cause it might be... Luke sees something in me that I really need to grow in. And it's not that he's afraid to say it, but I'm also his wife, and so to have an outside voice speaking into me, hey, you might wanna work on your closing technique, or you might wanna work on this. And vice versa, Luke has a coach that says the hard things to him too, and so that's been really great for us to have a voice that's not each other, helping to grow us and guide us to take a little bit of that pressure off of each other, being that voice into each other's lives as well.

JO: And those are two separate coaches that you each have.

AW: Correct, yes.

JO: Oh that's great.

AW: They're the same organization so they probably share notes and talk about us behind our back, but which is actually fine and good. Context can carry through. But I think that has been really, really important, just to take some of that pressure off of each other...

JO: I think that's great. It's obvious you guys are going above and beyond just to not only manage the business, but also manage the relationship and the marriage, and so I give you props for that 'cause so many people don't go that extra mile to try to continue to get better, and that's great that you guys are doing that. So obviously, there's a lot of crossover, and I guess that's kind of my next question is, not only are you both in the real estate business, both realtors most active in land, but you're both very active in the RLI organization, and Luke, I know you've been very high up in the leadership level with RLI and on the executive team and Allison, you were part of the women and land panel at the national land conference, which was great to see. Is there a crossover that you guys have that you say, Hey, Allison, make sure you mention this when you're on the panel, or Luke this is kind of getting a bird in my skin, can you bring this up at the next executive team meeting, or do you just kinda turn your backs and say, Alright, you do you, I'll do me and we'll see how it all blends.

LW: I would say more the latter. Honestly, I will say that when she was on the panel, I came up to her and I was like, You're gonna do a great job and I love you, but I'm just guessing you don't want me to be there, I might make you a little extra nervous and she's like, Yeah, don't come. So just... Nobody saw me at her event I had clearance that I was... There. I will say this for anyone who's thinking about doing the executive thing and leadership like I kind of fell in love with RLI even like right when Alison was joining in the business, and so she saw what it meant to me. I think if you are going to try to pursue that executive thing, I think it definitely needs to be... And it needs to be like a mutual or a two-way discussion with your significant other, it's unique, obviously, and that Allison's in the industry, and so she's growing in her career and her involvement with RLI, but I certainly do not regret it. So make sure, Aubrie knows that Kat. But I think when you do things like that, it always ends up being more travel or more responsibility than maybe you thought, and so it's been an amazing blessing the last four years, I only got one trip left, but, and I definitely was gone quite a bit for stretches and obviously, it's a four-year commitment, and when I started, the boys were 10 and five, and so I definitely wanted Allison's blessing in pursuing that.

LW: I would strongly suggest any male or female wanting to get involved in leadership to make sure your spouse is on board because it does add a whole extra layer of complexity and travel, so that is my one warning or suggestion for anybody wanting to do it, but Allison obviously, has been great, and I think as I was president and she got her license and she started coming to national land conferences, 2018, people have been able to see how great she is now too, so as I kinda wind down, I would like to see the roles reversed a little bit, and I think hopefully you'll see more of her and less of me in the future.

JO: That's great advice. I'll second that we'd love to see more of her and less of you, but I think everybody says the same thing about me and Tammy, we'd say the same thing about Kasey Mock and Elizabeth and Max and Trish Ramsey. Hey man, this thought just came to my head here as I'm thinking about all the couples that are in the same shoes as us, Bill and Helen Davis with Keller Williams up in Denver. We should have a panel or a break-out session at National RLI next year when we're in Tucson, where all of us get together in a room, we're like, Okay, how did you survive this past year, other than wine and whiskey, what's the biggest secret to surviving marriage and you're working together because I really think that would be a fabulous breakout session when you look at our industry and how many people work together and live together, food for thought, I don't know. What do you think, Allison? 

AW: I think we could only make each other stronger by sharing some of that because... Yeah, it feels sometimes in our day-to-day, we don't know a lot of couples doing what we're doing, and so to have a resource would be valuable. For sure. And I'm sure I'd be interested to see, only this is at least our experience, and I'm gonna set the feminist movement back by what I'm about say and I don't mean to, but I think only one of you can really shine at a time, I could have resented Luke in his leadership role within RLI and not supported him, or I could have been his biggest cheerleader in that, and then you heard him say he wants to reverse the rules and there wouldn't have been room for both of us to be chasing big-time involvement at the same time without it coming at a cost to our family, and that's been the number one filter, even when his dad came to us about buying the business, our number one filter, we run decisions through is it can never come at a cost to our family, and so I think it would have come at a cost if I was trying to get really involved at the same time he was, and so I think you have to be each other yin and yang and I was glad to take that back seat to be his, behind the scenes, girl pushing him forward.

LW: Yeah, what a lot of people don't realize is like, so if I'm gone three, four weeks a year that I hadn't been previously, not only is she obviously being a wonderful mother, but she's running the ship of what our actual job is. My full-time job, is not RLI President or RLI executive team, it's just a really awesome thing I was able to experience, but she had to not only take care of the boys when I was gone, but also make sure we're all land Services, which actually truly pays the bill is running efficiently. And when you go to a conference, and especially when the boys were younger, and I was like, Yeah, hey, I just was in DC, I had steaks and a really awesome old fashioned and then she's like, Well, I had chicken nuggets and french fries out of a box, she could have held that... Chance for me but she did, and so we're just real fortunate that I think we went into it with the right mindset that we're gonna have to complement each other, and it's a season, and we're at the end of that season, so...

JO: Well, that's awesome, man, I admire what you guys are doing, you're doing it well, and I think everybody can learn a lot from watching you and listening to you, is there anything else either one of you wanna throw out there as we're wrapping up as far as a little bits of advice or little tidbits for our listeners.

AW: I mean, we've kind of said it already, but to make time to just be a family, not let it just be about work all the time, to make sure that there's enough healthy boundary in there that you don't become just your work.

LW: Yeah, you can only be defined by one or two things in life. You can't be defined by seven or eight, so you wanna be defined by your banner out front, or do you wanna be defined by your family and the kids you're raising? So it's a pretty easy choice for us and we've been in tune with that, so that would be my suggestion as well.

JO: Well, that's well said. Listeners, I hope Dirt Debacles continues to dig up new perspectives and solutions that help you better manage your land business, if you're a current RLI member and you've got crazy stories you'd like to share, get in touch with us and we'll consider having you on the podcast, just go to rliland.com and contact the marketing manager on the staff Contact page. Luke and Allison, thanks for joining us today. Man, this was really great, and if some of our listeners had some follow-up questions, wanted to get in touch with you. What's the best way for them to do that? 

LW: Yeah, I am OCD about responding to people via text, email phone call, so I don't care how you get a hold of me... You can call me, you can text me, you can email me, I will get a hold of you.

JO: Awesome, Allison.

AW: Inbox manager as he is. So give me a call.

JO: Alright, sounds good. Well, for more expertise on land real estate topics, be sure to check out the RLI blog, follow us on social media, and of course, tune in for upcoming episodes of the voices of land podcast.