Dirt Debacles 4 | Guest Jonathan Goode, ALC

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Welcome to the REALTORS^® Land Institute Podcast, the Voice of land, the industry's leading land real estate organization.

Justin Osborn: Welcome to the REALTORS^® Land Institute podcast, the Voice of Land, the industry's leading land real estate organization. This is Justin Osborn Accredited Land Consultant with the Wells Group in Durango, Colorado.

Welcome to the fourth episode of Dirt Debacles, a new series on the Voices of Land podcast where we talk to RLI members about crazy situations they've encountered selling land. On today's episode, we're going to get into the dirt with RLI member and accredited land consultant Jonathan Goode with Farm and Forest Brokers out of Centerville, Alabama. Jonathan has been a land broker for 17 years, serving Alabama and Mississippi. He has recently partnered with several of his longtime co workers to found Farm and Forest Brokers, which is focused on helping people buy and sell farms and ranches, timberland and quality recreational and hunting properties. Jonathan serves as responsible broker and CEO for the new company. Welcome to the podcast, Jonathan.

Jonathan Goode: Well, thanks so much for having me on. It's a pleasure to be with you today.

JO: Yeah, man, looking forward to doing this. You know, 17 years of experience. I'm sure you've seen quite a bit of different ins and outs of transactions and so educate us a little bit. Are there any particular properties or transactions that really stand out that were problematic? 

JG: I feel like Dirt Debacles would be a good description for my whole career, Justin. I feel like, I feel like that's an apt name, but yeah, I mean, from my very first listing in the spring of 2008, there was a 13 acre property for sale by owner in my county. And I was very eager and wanted to convince this landowner to let me list his property. So, I went and met with him just like so many of us do, convinced him that I was the man for the job and I listed this 13 acres. Well, from the outset I knew this was going to be a big issue. The adjoining owner was a relative of the seller and he was a true outlaw. And so, from the start, we got a lot of interest in the property. It went under contract, we got it surveyed and I'm out one day I'm flagging the east line of the property. This is Alabama 17 years ago, this is not Colorado. So, I'm out flagging the east line and as I'm doing that, I come up on all these pots in the wood with a unique looking plant growing in them out there.

JG: So, this guy's growing marijuana on his property and I have just flagged a trail all the way to it. And so, I'm, you know, looking around for game cameras or whatever. So I Immediately turn around and go back out and start taking all my flagging down. And so, you know, I found that, it was really crazy. The buyers who had this property under contract had a, they had a young daughter, she was 12 or 14. This neighbor, who was problematic, was one of only about 15 registered sex offenders in our whole county at the time. And so, I'm brand new. This is my first deal. And I tell the sellers, like, you're either going to let me disclose this to these buyers or I'm out of the deal. I'm not going to go forward with it. Just, you know, I was brand new. I didn't know how to handle any of that. So, we work through that. We get to the day before closing, and the closing attorney comes up and says, "Hey, there's a problem with the title. We can't close." And so, I'm like, "Holy cow, we got all this way."

JG: So it takes them about six months to do a quiet title suit. The buyers, instead of buying this 13 acres, went and bought a dually and an RV and, I mean, and a pool behind camper. And so, they decided they're going to travel the country instead of buying some land.

JO: Oh, no.

JG: So anyway, I went through all these things on this first, you know, my very first listing, and the seller and I just agreed to part ways. It was just one of those where every possible thing that could go wrong did. But I really feel like from that, you know, that's a great way to start a career is having some speed bumps in the road. So, I've had a lot of those through the last 17 years.

JO: Sure. Yeah. That's educational, man. I mean, you can sit in all the RLI classes you want, and I don't think you're going to learn, you know, how to handle something like that, unless we're doing some case studies. So, I got a couple of questions about that. So, the plants you found, were those the family neighbor or was that your client? 

JG: No, it was the neighbor. He was growing them. I mean, he just had them just across the boundary line over there. And I went and introduced myself to the neighbor right after I listed the property, and he had a chicken coop out there. And he said, now I get hawks out here a lot. You're going to hear me shoot a lot. When you're on this property, I'm just protecting my chickens. And so, I'll be out there showing the property. And the guy would just be out there firing rounds off. You know, it's just... Everything... It was just like a comedy. It was a sitcom. It was the Seinfeld of land sales. And I mean, everything that could go wrong did. And so, it was awesome. But you mentioned RLI classes. That's one of the things I love about the Realtors Land Institute is when you sit in, I enjoy the coursework, but I enjoy hearing the stories from the land brokers more. I mean, I learned way more from the people in the classroom than I do what's in the textbook. I mean, it's great information, but the applaud knowledge that you learn from the people who are in the classes is really... I mean, that's my favorite part.

JO: Oh, man. We're always dealing with something. You know, I've got multiple sellers on a deal right now, and one of the sellers that kind of controls everything on this ranch, she's an old retired judge, and, you know, she's the matriarch of the family. And we're selling this ranch, and we've got 260 acres on the east side under contract. And the buyer wanted to buy the Southwest 40.

JO: And she said, "No, I don't want to sell him that, I want to be able to still sit in my house and look down off my deck and look at that land and him not own it." Like, okay, that's reasonable. And then like 20 minutes later, in the same conversation, you know, we're on it. We're on a zoom call so you can see everybody's faces. And she goes, "Okay, so you're going to put this Southwest 40 on the market with the rest of the ranch. Right?" I'm like, "Hold on, wait a minute, ma'am. You said you didn't want to sell it." And she goes, "No, I just don't want to sell it to him. I want you to sell it to somebody else."

JG: Oh, wow.

JO: Oh, my... And everybody's just rolling their eyes, shaking their heads, and you're like, you can't make this stuff up, man. Like, okay, sure, if that's what you want me to do. Retired federal judge. I'm not going to change your mind, but...

JG: Oh, yeah, for sure.

JO: This is insane.

JG: Well, that's... You know, that's one of the big things is you work through all different kinds of scenarios. One of my favorite stories involves another accredited land consultant, Calvin Perryman. And if you come to a class in the Southeast, this is one we tell. But I had this man come to me and said, I want you to help me market. It was like 105, 110 acres. He said, I want you to help me market it. And here's the story. He said, I'm the illegitimate son of a man who passed away his other son. They thought they owned the property. I went to court. I got a court order. We exhumed my father. We did a DNA test to prove paternity. And I'm a half owner in this property. And so, the illegitimate son hired me. The legitimate son hired Calvin Perryman. We were working for different companies, and so Calvin and I worked together. I think the statute of limitations is passing this, so we should be good. And they're probably... They probably don't listen to the RLI podcast, but... So, they exhumed the body, did a DNA test, proved paternity. I represented the illegitimate son.

JG: Calvin represented the legitimate son. There were so many problems with this. The legitimate son had a mental disability, and he got a disability check every month. Well, we had to have three different doctors examine him to say that he was competent to sign on a deed and sell the property, but not so competent that he would lose his disability payments going forward. So, we had three different doctors do examinations on him. We got the property under contract. We got ready to sell it. There was an encroachment on the south line. The boundary line was off. The fence was on the wrong person. So, we worked through this. Another agent brought the buyer. Calvin and I were representing the sellers. By the time it was all said and done, I think we had a little over a year in this. We made like, 2400 bucks a piece. And I'm like, but we have one of the best stories when we go to RLI meetings, because who else has had to exhume a body and do, you know, proof paternity? So, it's, you know, it's just one of those things that you run into. Thankfully, we don't run into that every day.

JO: Man, that's a first. Yeah, I definitely have not encountered anything like that in my 20... What is this year? 23 for me, I think, that's crazy. Well, what kind of advice do you give these agents that are listening to us? I mean, we're obviously dealing with some, you know, kind of wheels, all circumstances here, but, you know, how do we help educate our listeners on what to do professionally whenever they come into these roadblocks in order to keep a deal on track? 

JG: So, everybody around me hears this saying, and it has made a lot of sense to me, "In land deals, smooth seas do not make skilled sailors." And so, if all of your transactions are smooth, you never get your sea legs about you. You don't know how to handle all these speed bumps and the rough spots. And so, smooth seas do not make skilled sailors. And when you go through these circumstances, these deals that are really tough... I make a list of lessons that I've learned, things that I hope that I don't have to learn again. I even put together a sheet fairly early on in my career that's kind of like, it's a debrief or a postmortem on a deal after it's done, like, just write down some of the key things and then what were some of the key lessons that I learned in these transactions? And so, I have a list of lessons that I hope that I never have to learn again. I've paid for the education on all of these deals through the years. So one, I'd say embrace the challenge. And two, another big one I think, is that...

JG: And I heard this described at an RLI conference. I was sitting at one of the roundtables. I was actually leading a roundtable a couple of years ago, and we were talking about this. And I wish I could give credit to the person who said it at the table, but they said that real estate agents are the shock absorbers in a deal. And that makes so much sense to me. We're the shock absorbers between the buyer and the seller. They have emotions that run high. They're going to say things, they're going to do things. But our job is to absorb that emotion, filter it, communicate it in a way that's productive. And so, I really... That resonates with me. Our job is not to fuel the passions that'll make a deal fall apart. Our job is to absorb that energy and keep the deal on track. And so, I would say that's one of the big jobs that people pay us to do as professionals.

JO: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point, man. I mean, there's so much emotion that comes into it from a lot of these buyers and sellers. But, you know, if we as agents can try to keep that aside and, you know, stick to the business side of things, actually absorb that information. That's a good analogy, the way you were saying that, man. And then, you know, we can get emotional over it at National Land Conference over a Baila Suavecito down in Tucson.

JG: That's right. Yeah. There's a time and a place for that, you know. Our job, I really tried to base my whole career. There's one statement that Zig Ziglar is famous, you know, motivational speaker, sales coach. He says, "You can have everything that you want in life if you're willing to help enough other people get what they want. You can have everything you want in life if you're willing to help enough other people get what they want." And I really feel like that's our job is somebody wants to sell, somebody wants to buy. Our job is to help put them together to get what they want. And the land brokers, I mean, if you've been in this 20 some odd years, the people that you see who have been really successful over a long career have really learned how to serve people. They've shown up, they figured out ways to provide a great level of service and helping people get what they want. And I really feel like that's what our job is as land professionals, is just to provide that kind of service to people.

JO: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree, man. I mean, the key word in that I think is service. I mean, obviously, you know, helping people, putting other people's needs in front of your own, man, that's huge. But yeah, I mean, when you get bottom down to it, we're really in a service industry and if you can serve your clients in ways that your competition can't, it's going to naturally push you to that next level.

JG: Absolutely.

JO: So you've been at this for 17 years. In your intro there, there was a little bit that I was saying about a new land brokerage. Tell me a little bit about this new land brokerage and where that's headed? 

JG: Yeah, so we recently partnered up. I've got, there are 10 guys coming with us. We founded a company called Farm and Forest Brokers. We're actually, we're actually talking about this before we make it a public announcement the first week of February. So, your listeners are getting the scoop right here. So, but yeah, we're very excited. We really want to focus on providing a high level of service just in helping people buy and sell farms and ranches, timberland, hunting properties. In our previous company, there was a lot of focus on doing other types of things. We wanted to focus specifically on land and having a very clear vision of what we want to do and how we want to provide service to those kinds of people who are buying and selling land. So, everybody that is part of this has a crystal clear focus on what we're trying to do. And man, it's awesome being with like minded people. And providing that level of service to the kinds of people that we want to serve. But, yeah, it was hard. You know, I've been with the same place. I only been with one, one company for 17 years.

JG: And so it was a challenge. But if it's okay, I'd like to share two thoughts with you that kind of helped me make this transition, because I think there are people who go through this from time to time, certainly not talking about people who are brokerage jumping. But I read two books last year that really shaped my thoughts on this. One is called, 'Necessary Endings,' by Dr. Henry Cloud. And one of the things that he talks about in there, you know, endings are just a normal part of life. But if you're in a relationship, if you're in a job, if you're involved with an organization, and there is no logical or clear path to change in the future, it may be necessary to consider an ending. And so, that was one of the thoughts that was going through my mind is, you know, can I see myself doing this another 17 years in this same pathway? And then I read another book last year called, 'Atomic Habits,' by James Clear. And I'm reading in the first chapter, and he says, "You should be far more concerned about your current trajectory than your current results."

JG: And man, that hit me like a ton of bricks, because last year was probably my third best year of my career. Mean, the current results were awesome. But as I looked at the trajectory, I just thought, this is not sustainable over the rest of my career. It's not where I want to go. It's not what I want to do. And so, the combination of those two thoughts from, 'Necessary Endings' and 'Atomic Habits,' it was just like, hey, I got to change the trajectory. And I'm a worrier by nature, just naturally a worrier. And at 48, thinking about changing career, you know, leaving one company that I'm a partner with to go start another one. But I had perfect peace about that just because I knew the direction I wanted to go. And so, to start this new business with these guys put us on a trajectory that we're excited about. And so, that's why we have launched this business is really, I think we're going to be able to serve people better and serve more people. And that, to me, you know, that that's what it's all about. That's, I've enjoyed that over the last 17 years, and hopefully this gives us some longevity to continue that trajectory.

JO: That's cool, man. Give you props all the years we've been doing this. I don't know that we've really discussed many books on the Voices of Land podcast, and I love this, man. You mentioned Henry Cloud. I'm going to definitely have to read that because there was... I don't even remember the name of it, but there was a book that a bunch of guys in our church, we read from him probably seven to eight years ago. It was like a men's leadership book. And, and it was phenomenal, man. And so, that was the first time I've heard his name, actually, since you just mentioned it. But the Atomic Habits book, I feel like I read that. Has that been out for a few years? 

JG: It has been. Yeah.

JO: Yeah, yeah. I remember my wife and I were going through that a few years ago. And so, yeah, that's a great, actually great kind of topic, man. I mean we're all in the, in the sales business. We're in the leadership business, you know, whether we're leading our clients, leading our employees, or leading our families. And maybe that's something we'll start bringing into this because there's so many good recommendations from books that you guys are reading that I'd love to know about.

JG: Well, so during COVID you know, all of us were busy. Everybody that had been in the business for a long time was really busy. I mean, those were extremely profitable years for us. We did really well. And I just recognized that I developed some bad habits. I mean, you really could just put a property on Facebook and sell it. You didn't have to do a whole lot. So a lot of the disciplines that I'd used to build my career, I stopped doing those during COVID. And so, coming out 23, I decided I'm going to hire a business coach. And RLI National had a guy come and speak. David Linsmeyer came and spoke with Southwestern Consulting. He came and spoke at our RLI National Conference. And so I really, I interviewed three or four different coaching companies, and I didn't hire David, but I hired one of David's guys. And Luke Worrell, Dean Saunders, A lot of these guys use Southwestern Consulting. And so, I called Luke Worrell and spoke with him about it. I called some of the folks at Dean's office and spoke with them, and they highly recommended this group. And so for about 18 months, I've been involved with coaching with Southwestern Consulting.

JG: And, man, it's just. It has really helped me in my career thinking about this trajectory piece. And Dave Brown, one of the partners with Southwestern Consulting, wrote a book called, 'Servant Selling.' That is amazing. It's phenomenal. And it is. It is, you know, my philosophy of how you do this embodied in a book. And so, he gives you the philosophy piece of it, but also a lot of practical. And so, we had Dave come and speak to our team, and, man, I would just recommend. You know, I always thought coaching might be for other people, but it wasn't for me. And then I started thinking, you know, Tiger Woods has a swing coach, Tom Brady has a quarterback coach. Mike Tyson had a punching coach. Like, there's no reason not to have somebody help you through your business. And so, anyway, that was a new concept for me, but I've been in it for about 18 months, and I would just say there's been a lot of positive from it.

JO: Man, I love taking notes here from you guys. So, I've got this written down, 'Servant Selling.' I'll be Googling that here as soon as we wrap up this podcast.

JG: It's worth the read for sure. If you come from a place of faith and you really want to serve people, it's an awesome resource for you. It's definitely worth taking your team through.

JO: Well, dude, way to flip the script. I mean, who would have thought we're here, like, supposed to be doing the Dirt Debacles podcast, talking about, you know, crazy stories, which we've done. But leave it to a boy from Alabama, Mississippi, to start, like, going deep here on getting real with podcast and getting educated on serving your clients. Man, I absolutely love this, Jonathan.

JG: Well, I appreciate you having me. And, you know, I really have the highest respect for RLI. I've been involved, really since they started the chapter in 2008 or 2009 when they started it back. Fletcher Majors, who is a longtime Alabama, you know, RLI member and then an instructor, man, he's been instrumental. Dave Milton, he's been a big part of it. So, these guys who've been a big part of the Realtors Land Institute have had a lot of impact on me. I've gleaned a lot, anyway, so I'm grateful to share, to have the opportunity to share a few things that have been impactful to me just because of all the influence that RLI has had on my career through the years.

JO: Yeah, I second that, man. I mean, Fletcher was one of the guys that helped get me into the teaching role being an instructor for RLI. But, yeah, I mean, first time I met him was Sitting back in his land investment analysis class like, oh my gosh, this is, this is not a good impression. We got to sit through 16 hours of this? But man, he, he made it as fun as you could make it, that's for sure.

JG: Well, his stories are the best. Fletcher, you know, if you go to one of his classes, he's definitely going to load you up with stories. And you know, one of the things that, and this is great principle for Dirt Debacles, but one of the things that Fletcher has always said in these classes that stuck with me when it comes to dealing with a problem is he said, "You be easy on the people and hard on the problem." And every time, you know, a problem comes up in the deal, the tendency is to take it out on the people. But to be easy on the people and hard on the problem. And that's always stuck with me. That's been great advice. And that's the kind of stuff, if you're a new, you know, listener to the podcast and you haven't gotten really involved with RLI, that's the kind of stuff that you learn that you're not gonna get just, you know, by taking, not, not knocking online classes. But there's just so much that you get that you benefit from by going to these in person classes.

JO: I'm going to apply that to my marriage. Man, that is genius.

JG: It's Fletcher. It's awful... I don't know where he got it, but it's not mine, it's his.

JO: Oh, man, I love that. Well, folks, I hope Dirt Debacles continues to entertain while digging up new perspectives and solutions that help you better manage and really just understand your land business. If you're a current RLI member and you have crazy stories you'd like to share, get in touch with us and we'll consider having you on the podcast. Just go to rliland.com and contact the marketing manager on the staff contact page. Jonathan, anything else for our listeners here as we're wrapping up? 

JG: No, just I appreciate you having me on and looking forward to seeing everybody in Arizona in two months.

JO: Yeah, yeah, it's going to be fun time for sure. What's the best way for our listeners to get in touch with you, Jonathan? 

JG: Jonathan@farmandforestbrokers.com if you'll just go to farmandforestbrokers.com, Real Stack just built us an awesome website so we, you know, we're happy about that. Farmandforestbrokers.com check that out and look forward to seeing folks in Arizona in a few months.

JO: Yeah, me as well. Man, this is going to be a good conference. Well, remember, folks, for more expertise on land real estate topics, be sure to check us out on the RLI blog, follow us on social media, and of course, tune in for upcoming episodes of the Voices of Land podcast.

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