Episode 52: The Power of the ALC Network | Guests Trent Saunders, ALC and Keat Waldron, ALC
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Welcome to the REALTORS® Land Institute Podcast, the Voice of land, the industry's leading land real estate organization.
Justin Osborn: Welcome to the REALTORS® Land Institute podcast, the Voice of Land, the industry's leading land real estate organization. This is Justin Osborn Accredited Land Consultant with the Wells Group in Durango, Colorado.
Welcome to the Voices of Land podcast. Today we're talking to two Accredited Land Consultants about the power of networking and referrals between ALCs. These two land brokers know best. They are the recipients of the APEX 2024 ALC to ALC Networking Award which honors the highest dollar volume land transaction conducted between two ALCs in the country. Today's guests, Trent Saunders and Keat Waldron from Saunders Real Estate. Trent Saunders is a top land advisor with over $500 million in sales since he kicked off his career in 2010. He specializes in farmland, ranch land and large acreage deals across the Southeast, bringing serious ag knowledge and a talent for strategic deal structuring and off market opportunities. Trent leads a powerhouse team at Saunders Real Estate and is all about helping clients build long term land legacies. Next we have Keat Waldron with us. Keat is a senior advisor and certified land specialist at Saunders Real Estate and and was recognized in 2021 as the youngest accredited land consultant in Florida. Over the past six years, he's closed land transactions across 12 Central Florida counties, ranging from transitional development tracks to multi thousand acre ranches, including deals up to 40 million. A seventh generation Floridian from Sebring, Keat holds a BS in Food and Resource Economics from the University of Florida with a focus on agribusiness and marketing. His deep roots in Florida's ag industry and love for the outdoors shape his expertise and passion for land. Welcome to the podcast guys, and congratulations on your huge APEX award.
Trent Saunders: Thank you, thank you for having us. We appreciate that.
Keat Waldron: Hey, it's a pleasure.
Justin Osborn: I'm looking forward to talking with you today. You know, kind of as I'm looking at your intros here, we got a lot in common. I mean, I got my real estate license when I was pretty young. I got my degree, my business degree in marketing with a double major in agribusiness. So we got a lot in common to talk about here.
Trent Saunders: Yeah, absolutely. So Keat and I, we work in the same office here out of Lakeland, but surprisingly we don't see each other that often. So it takes a podcast or an award ceremony for us to get together and put our heads together. So here we are.
Justin Osborn: Well, that's great man. So, yeah, I mean, definitely maybe some inside knowledge here. I'd love to kind of hear how the deal structured. Was that a benefit of y' all being in the same office and kind of having the inside scoop? Or, kind of tell me about this transaction, how it all started.
Trent Saunders: Yeah, so Keat and I, we were at the National Land Conference last year. Or was it two years ago? Do you remember, Keat?
Keat Waldron: Beginning of last year, start in January or... Well, beginning of last year. Yeah.
Trent Saunders: Yeah. So we were sitting at a table and Keat had previously sent me a property for my client. And my client wasn't interested at the time. And so Keat and I just got talking and strategizing and trying to figure out a way to bring it back to his attention. I believe Keat either drafted an email at the table or later that... it was actually at the awards ceremony the previous year. And I can't remember if Keat and I said we were going to win that then or we said it later, but we were aiming then. And my client ended up, while we were sitting at the table, saying, yeah, I'm interested in it. And that's how we got the whole thing started was at National Land Conference at the award ceremony.
Justin Osborn: That's great. So that was two years ago. That would have been the one in Louisville or was that the one in Denver?
Trent Saunders: No. Actually, Keat, do you remember?
Keat Waldron: Would have been Louisville.
Trent Saunders: Okay.
Keat Waldron: Yep.
Justin Osborn: That's great. Yeah. What a testimony for, you know, folks that thinks that, oh, I don't need to be involved. You know, this is an Internet day and age online business. What a testimony to actually, like, show up, attend these conferences, get involved, because things register. I mean, I'm the same way when I'm sitting at National Land Conference or I'm sitting at one of our chapter meetings, you know, it's like, oh, wait, what he just said makes me think I should send an email to this client. And now here, 12 months, you know, 24 months later, you know, there's a lot of money in everybody's pockets to happy clients. And one of the biggest deals of the year. So congratulations.
Trent Saunders: Yeah. Yeah. The deal itself went really smooth. There was one... You know, there's always a hitch somewhere, but the deal itself flowed pretty smoothly there. What did we do, Keat, 45 days, 60 days? Do you remember?
Keat Waldron: It was just short of 60 days that we closed.
Trent Saunders: Yep.
Justin Osborn: So who was representing the seller and who was representing the buyer?
Keat Waldron: I had the seller on the transaction, trying to obviously have the buyer. It was kind of, for me, it was a little bit, I think I talked to the seller on and off for about a year and a half leading up to that and just was... I knew it was a highly confidential situation with the agribusiness, with the employees, with everyone kind of there on site and with not wanting to publicly put it on the market, it was just, I had to go about telling the right people about this opportunity. And honestly, Trent was the first real serious buyer that I was putting in front of, I felt like. And just because Trent gave me enough good, you know, background, I feel like, you know, knowledge and experience from his guy and what they had been doing, it just seemed like an ideal match. And so it was delicate putting it together. That was what took the longest. And then once the deal went under contract, it was probably the smoothest deal I've ever done. So it's kind of crazy how that happens. But yeah, off market deal took about a year of me talking to the seller on and off before the right opportunity came about with talking to Trent. And like you said, going to these events, going to these networking scenarios, being around people you can trust, I mean, in this scenario, I think it is other ALCs, you know, most of the top producers in our office if not all of them are ALCs or a CCIM designation, you know, they're just full time in the business, you know, and I know that they take everything seriously and I can trust them when I'm handing an opportunity over like this, you know, on an off market deal that needs to be, you know, really confidential at the end of the day. So we did it successfully and everyone was really happy with it.
Justin Osborn: That's great, man. So sounds like there was a whole lot of moving parts with, you know, not just a working farm or working ranch, but you know, there was an income potential or income component to it as well that probably had a value to it as well. So can you all talk to me without going into too much, you know, breach of confidentiality about how that was structured, you know, as far as percentages goes, without going into dollars, was it 50% of the land, 50% of the business? Tell me a little bit more about that if you could.
Trent Saunders: Yeah, so it was actually, as far as the, you know, the contract itself goes, I mean, it was all basically land. There was a packing shed out there. We put a little bit of value on that, but for the most part we didn't value anything on the business side because my client ended up only buying the land. The land he bought more on a cap rate basis, even though it doesn't quite make a ton of sense to a lot of investors, but to this investor it did. So he bought it on a cap rate basis. The tenant, the previous owner actually stayed on and is farming it now. And yeah, so he bought it based off of a cap rate and none of the business went with it. But the business is continuing today.
Justin Osborn: Nice. Okay. Well, it's funny that you bring up cap rates. I'm working on a tractor supply deal right now and, you know, it's one of the better cap rates that I've seen out west. I mean, most of the stuff that we're selling, it's pretty low. I mean, I don't understand it. Like you're saying, it doesn't really make sense. But I think a lot of investors are hesitant, you know, skeptical on where to park their cash, and real estate, long term triple net leases definitely looks good right now when you consider kind of the uncertainty in the economy. And so we're seeing, you know, cap rates out here around five, five and a half. That tractor supply we're working on is low sixes, but yeah, that's, you know, not a huge return when you kind of think about it, especially with the little about a risk that's involved. You know, very few of ours are triple net leases that are guaranteed. So you can go get four and a half percent in the money market, you know, without much risk.
Trent Saunders: I know. Well, what's interesting is like, when I say the cap rate didn't make sense, it was like a 1.6 or 1.7. Like it genuinely did not make sense to most people except for a buyer that wanted to hold on to it for 50 years. To somebody like that, it's a different thing. And most cap rates we're seeing pretty much in the Southeast are anywhere from three and a half to four percent, which is still under what you can get in your money market account. So it still doesn't make a ton of sense, but it is a safe steady investment. It goes up every year pretty much. At least farmland does. You know, it's a good hedge against inflation. But, you know, it takes somebody who's willing to take a little bit of a risk buying some land rather than putting it safely in a money market or anything else for the same basic return year over year. When you sell it obviously you get appreciation and all sorts of other stuff, but, you know, year over year returns, it can be semi risky. You know, you never know when the farm is going to blow out and there always seems to be some sort of problem that comes up.
Justin Osborn: Yeah, you're exactly right. You know, they're banking on that long term appreciation when they're buying properties cap rates that low. Trent, can you tell me, was the buyer, was he in the middle of a 1031 exchange by chance or was this just a flat out straight purchase?
Trent Saunders: No, it was a flat out purchase. They had a good liquidity event and so they just had extra capital lying around and they needed something to do with it.
Justin Osborn: Nice. All right. And then Keat, same question to you, your seller, did they turn around, do a 1031 exchange or DST or go buy some more properties or they just kind of split it all up amongst the heirs and everybody go their separate ways?
Keat Waldron: Yeah, that was, you know, this was one of the few clients I feel like that for a sale of this size, they did not do a 1031. It was considered at one point for sure, but the opportunities in our market at least and what he might have wanted to roll it into just were not available. But yeah, it was more of a, hey, you know, I think I want to create some generational wealth for my family and, you know, kind of go that route with it is what I think the end result was. And I think kind of a note to kind of going back just a bit to that property in that location, being in Martin County, and if you look and see, Martin county is, right now, they're not really pro growth to say, but when you look and see what's going on in Port St. Lucie, which is just to the north boundary of this property across the canal, there's thousands of units being built. And so there was a transitional component I feel like to this property as well. And if you look at a lot of the sales that happen in Martin county, there's no small sales it feels like, you know, 40 million, you know, Trent had another deal last year, 65 million, right?
Trent Saunders: Yep.
Keat Waldron: Then I think there was another deal done off market, over 100 million. But just again, that area being so close to the east coast, Jupiter, Stuart, there was a lot of those factors playing into I think feel like a desire for the property and, you know, the seller just, you know, again, he just wanted to remain... He didn't want to put it out there, but he still wanted the highest and best offer. And I feel like we were able to do that. And I feel like the buyer felt like that they probably got a great investment out of the deal, you know, minimal cash flow, but very, you know, very practical, very steady flow of income for years to come. And just to allow the growth to kind of come to this area and continue to come. I mean, when you're talking 5,000 to 8,000 units being built just across the canal to the north and you look and see what that area of South Florida is doing, it's just unreal. And so it was cool to kind of see that come together and it be a successful transaction because there's just not many of them that occur in the market area. So when you do get to participate, it's kind of like, wow, that was... feel fortunate at the end of the day. But yeah, but going back to your question, the seller, he did take his capital and invested in different ways across the board for his family, for himself, to create that generational wealth, I feel like for the future.
Justin Osborn: Man, that's cool. Y' all are in an area that is seeing so much growth and that y' all have got the land, you know, to generate those size of transactions, it's, you know, a lot of people are in business 30, 40 years before they get to experience something like that. And so talk to me a little bit about the education that you guys have gone through, the hard work, the time grinding to get to where you're at today because there's so many people that don't understand, I think, what it takes to get to that level and the amount of education so that these sellers do trust you with large transactions like that.
Trent Saunders: Yeah. I'll say Keat is smarter than I am. He's gotten his career up to date, up to par, faster than I did. I chose to take the harder route of the two options. You know, when I got my license I was 18, which is not an easy thing to do. I'd never bought a house, I hadn't even rented a house. So when I got my license, I had to study and study and study. And man, that test kicked my butt every which way from Sunday. Now I can take it and probably not study, but at the time it was hard. And then I, you know, I went through a number of years of just grinding, sending out mailers, doing BPOs, lots of income generating stuff. And, you know, my career the last probably five years has been, it's been on a very big rise and that's been a direct result of, I got into coaching. It's one of the things that actually propelled me was kind of organizing my time, my income producing activities, getting in line with everything that I wanted both personally and professionally. So the coaching has been one of the biggest aspects of my success apart from my network and my education. So I got a degree in Citrus. They no longer offer that degree anywhere in the world. I had... one of the last degrees that they handed out I got. So when I was trying to figure out what degree I wanted, I was really, I'd already gotten my real estate license. I, you know, was starting to go into college and I figured, well, I don't really want to get a degree in real estate while I am doing real estate.
Trent Saunders: So I was like, what's something adjacent that really fits in with land? So I found a school that did Citrus and you know, went through their Citrus program. It was a full four year program at Florida Southern. And then I continued selling land that entire time. And then I actually started my ALC journey in 2011 and then just, it was too much to do school and trying to get my ALC all at once. So I didn't finish it until 2022. But I was a part of the network. I had gone to National Land Conferences with my dad for forever. My dad's been in the business a long time and the network that I grew through the, you know, National Land Conference through boot camp, it has allowed me to be more successful today than if I had not gone through boot camp or had not gotten involved with RLI. I'm currently doing deals in five states and I have three different ALCs on them. So it's a good network to be a part of. And I would say if you're new in the business and you want to figure out how to be successful, start taking the RLI classes right away. That's the easiest and best way to get plugged in.
Justin Osborn: Nice, man. Yeah, it's a lot of years of hard work. So what, 11 years or so is the pathway it took. Now, when you said boot camp, did you end up finishing and getting your ALC at one of the boot camp events?
Trent Saunders: I did. So in 2022, Tyler Davis, our president, and I, we went through the boot camp together. I'd already taken some of the classes, but it ended up working out. And I loved my experience. I got to meet awesome people. We've tried to work on deals together. I've done one deal with someone in boot camp. I mean, it's just been... it was very fruitful, both educational and relational. It was just a great use of resources.
Justin Osborn: That's great. And, Keat, what about your pathway?
Keat Waldron: For me, it started, I'd say, earlier on in life for at least, you know, early high school, you know, is when I kind of started having a picture of, like, what my family did at home. You know, I grew up in an agricultural family and I think over the years my dad and grandfather, they both periodically would invest in land, sell it, keep some of it. And so I always heard a little bit of lingo and just kind of the real estate talk early on, I feel like in my life and kind of being surrounded by it made me curious. And so when I went to Florida, they didn't offer a BS in real estate. So I did go up... You know, I'd go the agribusiness route because at the end of the day I knew I wanted to do something in real estate, but just Florida didn't offer that opportunity for a degree. But what it did offer was a lot of great networking opportunities. My fraternity was an agricultural fraternity. Trent was part of the same fraternity at Florida Southern. And so that was a big network for me on a national scale. And just no matter where you went throughout the country, if you knew an AGR, Alpha Gamma Rho, there was just an instant kind of connection with that.
Keat Waldron: And I'd say even comparing that to the ALC designation and RLI in general, you kind of get that same familiarity when you're connecting with another broker, discussing deal flow with them, just different things they've dealt with the business, you can make that connection. And so at Florida, you know, Dean, also Trent's dad, was an AGR back in the day. And so I feel like Dean's done a real good job at recruiting AGRs over the years. And so you just start thinking about how these networks kind of combine over time and how easy it ends up being to connect with people from the same space. I mean, we are largely an agricultural land brokerage firm, a lot of what we do. And so being surrounded by that my whole life, and then actually Dean and... the company listed actually one of my family's properties when I was a senior in high school. And so that's where I first met Dean, and that's where I was introduced to Trent, because Trent was on the listing at the time. I was still a senior in high school. And like, who are these guys coming down here to list my family's property?
Keat Waldron: You know, I had to, you know, kind of feel them out a little bit and see, hey, what's this all about? But I could instantly tell that they were, you know, the best in the region. You know, had heard about other big deals the company had done and just had a good experience. Right? And so that followed through the end of college and then, you know, ultimately working with Saunders and, again, just being around people who have a high rate of success, you know, Trent, Dean. I mean, there's just so many top producers in our office on a national level. And so that just made me become more motivated early on personally and just getting to bounce the ideas off of them. You know, I'm not a guy that's afraid to ask questions, you know? And so the UF degree and all kind of helped to create a good binding, just maybe a little bit more business financial sense. But the true deal making flow came from, you know, hanging out with people like Trent, other ALCs in our office, other top producers in our office, and, you know, nothing like experience to really, I feel like compound your business over the years.
Keat Waldron: And I personally, since 2021 probably have started going to a lot more of the networking events and 2021 was when I got my ALC because the first few years in the business are always difficult. Right? You know, it's a sales commission based business and, you know, we all deal with our struggles early on, but just I was full time in it, I was committed to it and, you know, you really start seeing the compound effects after, you know, five, six, seven years in the business if you're full time in it, I feel like. And so, yeah, just the opportunity came about. You know, Trent and I worked together quite a bit previously. You know, not like super consistently over the years, but like back when I first joined the company, Trent and I were on quite a few listings together. I'd done quite a few deals. And so, you know, again, it's just like, when this all came together last year, it was just like, man, it was our time, maybe a little bit too long. It had been too long since we had done a deal. So, you know, it's kind of funny how that'll work where... Or it's funny how that works because, you know, sometimes you'll talk to people, try to put deals together, nothing will happen for a year, a year and a half, and then all of a sudden you put together maybe a 20, 30, $40 million deal, which is what we did last year. So that was pretty awesome.
Justin Osborn: Well, congratulations to you guys, man. I think it's great and I love hearing, you know, some of the key words that you guys are saying full time. You know, this isn't something that you guys decided let's go dabble in. We're committed to be a full time real estate broker. We're committed to be professionals. We're committed to network with some of the best in the industry. I mean, you guys mentioned Dean. I think didn't he get the National Land Broker of the year award from RLI for 2024, is that correct?
Trent Saunders: He got Realtor of America. Yeah.
Justin Osborn: Yeah, Realtor of America. Like, man, there's something...
Keat Waldron: That's a great title.
Justin Osborn: That is awesome, man. How many ALCs do you guys have in your office?
Trent Saunders: Ooh, that's actually a Tyler question. I don't know, to be honest with you. But we're constantly promoting it. I know we've got a bunch that are going through the educational program right now. I'd say we have more than 10, but I'm not sure, you know, how many are in the works right now and how many we might continue to have through. But we constantly push it as an organization. We fully believe in the education that RLI provides and, you know, we help share some of the burden of the cost for some of the newer agents getting into it. So we fully support RLI and the education we get.
Justin Osborn: Man, that's great that you guys just keep growing it like that. I mean, for those of you that are listening, to get kind of an idea of what we're talking about here, there's less than 800 ALCs in the entire United States. So, you know, you talk about this elite group that's doing business. I mean, he was just talking about doing business in five states and on three of those deals is ALCs. And you know that you're dealing with somebody that's professional, that's competent, that's going to do what they can to get to the closing table. And so if you're looking for one of these ALCs, maybe you need to send a referral out to somebody. You can go to the Find a Land Consultant tool on the RLI website and just click on the ALC box when you do your search and everybody will pop up right there. And it's a great way to send business across the country.
Trent Saunders: And I'll tell you, I use that same tool professionally. You know, I know that we have it set up for landowners to kind of come on and find somebody professionally, but I personally, when I'm looking for off market deals, I will go on there and I will find another ALC in the state that I'm looking for a deal, even if they're not in the same region, just somebody that has their ALC that is in the state that I'm looking for, and I'll pick up the phone, call them, or I'll send them an email and just say, hey, what do you got in your area that, you know, is off market, no one really knows about? And that's honestly how I did most of my business last year, was just picking up the phone and finding ALC. Even if my people in my network didn't know someone, they knew somebody who knew somebody. And so it's allowed me to go not just in Florida, but the entire Southeast region and kind of pick out who's the best of the best and pick up deals all throughout the Southeast is directly through that tool you just mentioned.
Justin Osborn: That's awesome, man. Well, you know, you're in the Southeast. When you got that buyer that wants to do Southwest, I look forward to getting that email from you, Trent.
Trent Saunders: Absolutely. Absolutely. Anytime. Absolutely.
Justin Osborn: Anything else, Keat, you want to throw out here as we're wrapping up?
Keat Waldron: No, it's a pleasure, man. I appreciate you guys having us on this podcast. I know it's, you know, even if it's just one person that gets something out of this and is maybe able to connect with someone else and, you know, nationwide, because we are a nationwide, you know, accreditation and, you know, if it allows one person to take something away and do a deal potentially of this size or just another deal in general, you know, nothing will make me happier, you know? So, yeah, success creates success, you know, and building off of that and talking to other people in the industry is what has motivated me and kind of kept me pushing forward.
Justin Osborn: That's a great way to end it, man. Success breeds success. I love it. Well, folks, for more expertise on land real estate topics, be sure to check out the RLI blog, follow us on social media, and of course tune in for upcoming episodes of the Voices of Land podcast.
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